Saga Edition

Dark Lord of Selur Joined: Sep 01, 2005 Posts: 647

Recently, the rules team has been buzzing over the newest Star Wars RPG rules released by Wizards of the Coast. Several members have obtained a legal copy of the rules and are quite pleased with the system. A discussion arose on if we use this system, what is needed to be changed and could be added as part of our multi-faction, multi-player gaming community. Since this is a community game, we cannot make a decision without input or feedback.

Hence, I have set this thread up for that purpose and have a poll.

The Saga Edition rules can be previewed at Wizards of the Coast and the links will be added at the end of this post. The previews might be a bit of a read but it covers approximately less than 1/4 of the rules, overall.

If the majority (2/3 is preferred) agree that we adopt Saga Edition as the official rules of SWCIC, then efforts will be made to reprogram the character creation process to match the new rules.

If the majority (2/3 is preferred) disagree and wish to stay with the current rules, then we will heed the will of the people.

When you vote, either way, please post your reasoning and preference. Some have experience Saga first hand or have seen their character in Saga format, they may wish to say what they like or dislike about it.

Without further ado, go vote!

Saga Edition Preview 1
Saga Edition Preview 2
Saga Edition Preview 3
Saga Edition Preview 4
Saga Edition Preview 5
Saga Edition Preview 6
Saga Edition Preview 7
Saga Edition Preview 8

Saga Edition Web Enhancement 1

Yellow Joined: Sep 23, 2006 Posts: 30

YAY!

I saw my char in Saga format and it gave me a Major Boost... From 2 Languages to 13... hard to top a Jump like that...

But it makes things easier in Space Combat too.. You dont have reqired Skills just to command starships, so you free Up Feats for something of better use.

Yellow Joined: May 24, 2004 Posts: 33

Hmm, looks interesting. I'm kinda surprised I don't have issue with more of what are in the Previews there. *shrugs* Might have to go take a look at it, and pick it up, particularly if we decide to use it.

Orange Joined: Apr 14, 2007 Posts: 17

Well, I hear that my stats don't go up much. Then again, I can't expect good combat from any Hutt.

Still, I think the changes look interesting.

Yellow Joined: May 24, 2004 Posts: 33

Hey, you never know. Several years ago I played a P&P SW game where one of the party was a Hutt. He didn't do too bad, and in a move that shocked us all, once successfully Reflex saved himself out of Force Lightning.

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:09 am

Hm, gotta be the natural insulation, that saved him Wink

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:06 am

I voted yes because from reading the previews, it seems like it might work better than the current system. The only questions I have would be on the implementation into our game here. My understanding is that there would be a character reset, which would almost be required because of switching systems. However, would we still retain our XP and be able to level back up immeadiately to where we were before the reset? Or will we all start from scratch? Smile

Dark Lord of Selur Joined: Sep 01, 2005 Posts: 647

You will all keep your XP, assuming that it is possible technically.

There is no need to have everyone starts from Zero if you have been playing for a while, some have been playing since before SWCIC. Shocked

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:26 pm

I bought a Saga rulebook the other day. Haven't had a chance to go through it yet, but I'm hoping to either tonight or tomorrow.

~CC~

Moderator Joined: Mar 17, 2004 Posts: 11

I will try to pick this up in the next few days (wife allowing) and see what I think Wink

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:04 pm

Folks, even if I had to manually give each and everyone their xp back (which wouldn't be needed anyway), that would go without saying.

So, just base your decision on what you like and dislike about the current and the new system Wink

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:44 pm

Hrm.

I haven't voted yet--I'm still deciding. My initial reaction after reading through parts of the Saga Rulebook tonight was that I'm not too certain I like it as a whole.

There are parts of Saga that seem to be an improvement over the original d20 system. Combat sticks out in my mind as an example. The combat mechanics seem simpler in Saga, which is good because the original system truly baffles me. I like the straight hit-point concept and the "natural 20 is a critical hit" without messing with threats and whatnot. That's the AD&D 2nd Ed part of me talking. The "conditions" seem a bit complicated, but I don't think they would come into play a whole lot (plus I don't even know if they were in the original system--I haven't looked).

Things I'm not too keen on:

Probably nitpicky of me, but labelling aspects of a vehicle as if it was a humanoid really makes my head hurt. It's taking me more time to figure out what the heck they mean by an X-wing's "Intelligence" and "Perception" than if they'd just labelled the terms "computer quality" or something like they did before. I'll be the first to anthropomorphize vehicles IC and even things like my car OOC, but I really don't see how it's an improvement in terms of game mechanics. Like I said, it's confusing me more than if they had used more appropriate or relevant terms (like "sensors" or "maneuverability").

Character creation. I know some people here have experimentally converted their characters to see how they'd look in Saga and are happy with the results. I haven't sat down with a piece of paper and tried to convert mine yet, but I tried to mentally do it as I was reading and was somewhat disappointed. The character seems rather bland to me with the Saga rules.

First off, there are fewer classes than the original system. Not necessarily bad in and of itself, but I think they lost some character diversity by eliminating those other classes. The classes they've pared it down to remind me of the D&D standard class set without those other ones that helped add to the "Star Wars feel" and made it stand out as such.

Second, and biggest--skills. The previous system gave me room to fit into the loosest class I could manage while allowing me to really personalize my character by using my skill points and feats. This was quite handy considering that I was taking an existing character concept and trying to make the character sheet fit that concept, instead of going the other way and creating a concept based on the character sheet. The skills are where I stood out from everyone else and made the character as unique as I wanted it to be, specializing in what I chose to specialize in. I can go up to someone and say, "Hey, I'm a dang good pilot and decent at astrogation, but I'm the most unathletic person you'll ever meet." In Saga, all I could say now is, "I'm a trained pilot and I'm trained in astrogation, but I'm not a trained athlete." There's a huge difference there in terms of characterization and character ability. I like the skill points allocation much, much better than the sweeping trained/untrained stuff. The new skills system is the main thing that makes Saga character creation seem bland to me. I'm not saying we need 20 million skills, but a way to indicate that you've made an effort to get better in one skill over another (even if you're "trained" in both) is nice.

So, I dunno. I could go for a hybrid, but the systems probably aren't compatible with each other in that way. Saga has its good points, but it's also got some things that concern me.

~CC~

Ultraviolet Joined: Aug 15, 2005 Posts: 237

The only thing I don't like about what I saw in the previews was the way skills work, same reasoning as CC's. I haven't managed to get a copy of Saga yet, so I don't know where I stand on it as a whole. Not saying we need to adopt it as a whole, either. lol.

Dark Lord of Selur Joined: Sep 01, 2005 Posts: 647

Skills are a but misunderstood. Each class has a list of class skills. At first level you choose what class skills you are trained in (+5 bonus). The rest are untrained. Each skill have a trained and untrained parts. Thus, if you are trained in Pilot, you can take advantage of the trained aspect such as +2 bonus to pilot-based weapons on starships. If you are not trained, you can't use that +2 bonus but you can fly.

The skill list are short because the skills are covering a lot of bases. For example, Perception covers sight, sound, smell, sense motive, etc in one. If you're blind, you get a penalty on all sight check, etc.

In reply to CC, you can be the most unathletic person, your ability scores will determine that with your untrained Athletic skill. Your character concept can be brought out very easily in Saga, you are good at piloting, thus you should be trained in pilot, maybe even Skill Focus, plus talents that make you an excellent pilot. As you level up, you get better without having to calculate or figuring out skill points all the time. In addition, each skill has subset skills that you can do, so by just looking at the skill list, it looks short but has a lot of punch...

Lastly, the vehicles having character like stats is the designers approach to streamline the system so space and ground are the same. One example they give is that the Wookie can now attempt to grapple a speeder, etc. By the same concept, tractor beams do a grapple check as well. Starfighters can now dogfight unlike in the current rules. This concept also make it easier to learn since it one system instead of two separate systems. Overall, I am much in favor of the Saga system, however I just want to get a general feel of what people think and if they want to try this approach for SWCIC.

So, thanks for your big post CC, that gives me a good indication of what people feel about Saga.

Dark Lord of Selur Joined: Sep 01, 2005 Posts: 647

I've edited into my first post the new Saga Edition Web Enhancement 1 link. It covers the tech specialist feat and outlaw tech talent tree, which are nice.