Not a technical complaint, more a SW canon complaint

Orange Joined: Jul 06, 2007 Posts: 24

I'm seeing something that is a bit irritating to me in regards to how language is used in the SW universe. I've seen it many times before on other boards and I was hoping I wouldn't see it here.

Nearly all Humans speak Galactic Basic. All predominantly Human planets have Galactic Basic as their primary standard language. There aren't even really different dialects but people do have accents. If you are raised on a world that has Galactic Basic as its primary standard language, you will have absolutely no problem communicating with anybody else that knows Galactic Basic no matter where they're from in the Galaxy.

The above is especially true for planets that are located on major trade routes through the galaxy, such as the Parlemian Trade Route. Likewise Core Worlds would also be that way.

Then of course there is slang. Different people will have different slang words and use those words in different ways, but that doesn't create a dialect.

It's interesting to see people taking an original and imaginative approach to their characters. The only problem is when the result shows that they didn't do any research beforehand.

I figure if things that are non-canon are highly questioned on here, character backgroung that includes non-canon elements should be also.

Ultraviolet Joined: Sep 29, 2005 Posts: 353

So what do you propose we do about it?

Orange Joined: Jul 06, 2007 Posts: 24

Perhaps post a link to Wookiepedia or StarWars.com. They're both excellent sites to use for research into canon (and even non-canon) SW material. Wookiepedia also includes alot of detailed EU information (both pre-Civil War and post-Civil War). If people are already checking out this site, then they can easily access either of those two websites, and it's probably easier and quicker than obtaining copies of any of the RPG books.

Perhaps more information on the major individual worlds here on SWCIC could be posted in a kind of reference section. Information on the SW universe isn't all that hard to find on the internet, but it might help if we have some kind of reference section, or maybe a list of websites that contains information.

Ultraviolet Joined: Sep 29, 2005 Posts: 353

That could be usable, only problem I see is with any copyright infringement.

Having something of a reference for the worlds we are using might be something to look into if we make it ourselves instead of copying it.

We should however keep note that this galaxy is different from the canon one in that certain events never happened, so together we have to come to somewhat of a uniform history.

In regards to language, I suggest you read the works of a certain Imperial ISB Officer on the IC board, which is very well done.

Orange Joined: Jul 06, 2007 Posts: 24

Yes, I did read that. Which was sort of the basis for this thread. While it is indeed very well done, Corulag doesn't have its own language. People on Corulag speak Galactic Basic, the same Galactic Basic as on Coruscant. There's no such thing (in the SW universe) as 'Corulagese' or whatever.

Joined: Jan 11, 2002 Posts: 3061 Location: USA

Still there are a lot of planets. I'm sure while everyone should speak Galactic Basic, most species started out with their own unique language. Others that are colonized later may have their own dialects. And given the size of the galaxy, there still will be much slang and unique words to fit the local culture.

I like to see people use their imagination. That's what roleplaying is about.
But don't make it a hassle. We're going to assume all characters can understand each other, so that interaction is possible.

If we need to define a word, we should. Point us to Wookiepedia or other sources. If its unique, define it. (I am considering running a game wiki, if people would be willing to add to it)

Orange Joined: Jul 06, 2007 Posts: 24

I understand what you're saying, but in the case of Corulag, it was settled by people from Coruscant. Not only that, it's a Core World on the Parlemian Trade Route, one of the busiest trade routes in the Galaxy.

Green Joined: Jun 25, 2004 Posts: 66 Location: Classified

Does it really matter? There are about fifty different ways a person could explain having learned a language other than the dominant language of a particular planet. That's like saying everyone that grew up in America should automatically know how to speak English fluently as a first language.

It's very possible that Ms. Lebezyatnikov's character, while from Corulag, perhaps is part of a belief or family that valued a different language over Galactic Basic.

There are a lot of things in this sim that aren't exactly 'canon'. I don't see why creativity should be stifled. Her character knows basic anyways, she's just not good at it because she'd not really used it until she actually left Corulag. It's a dead issue.

Orange Joined: Jul 06, 2007 Posts: 24

Actually it does matter because it makes absolutely no sense. And you can't compare it to America, because the level of technology is vastly different.

I can see it if she was from a backwater world in the Outer Rim, but not a Core World that's heavily travelled and lies on a major trade route. Not to mention the fact that Corulag doesn't even have a seperate language of its own.

I have no problem with creativity either. I just think that it should make sense in regards to everything else. This is like somebody going to Ithor to learn Ithorian combat tactics including how to use indigenous armed and unarmed techniques.

Dark Lord of Selur Joined: Sep 01, 2005 Posts: 647

The problem lies in the fact that you want to use canon to restrict our use of roleplay. While Corulag is a colony from Coruscant or something like that, and it is predominantly Basic, its entirely possible to not be fluent in Basic.

Its like going to a port city in America and expect everyone there to know English. A majority will know it but that just means at least 60 percent.

If you want to use basic information on sectors, systems, or planet to define the environment for roleplay, thats great and makes my job as moderator easy. However, you cannot restrict a character's option based on that.

If we did that, then Maskan can't be from Corellia and be a Mon Calamarian or Talin Fost be intelligent and be from Agamar.

Orange Joined: Jul 06, 2007 Posts: 24

Your examples aren't the same thing. And no, it's not like going to a port city in America and expecting everyone there to know English.

It's more like English being the predominant, number 1 spoken and written language on the entire planet. Spoken and written by at least 80% of the entire population (including animals, if they had the ability to speak, read, and write) and used exclusively in every single school, corporation, and government entity on the planet. Then you take two educated, intelligent people from, let's say Australia and England, who happen to work for the same government. All of a sudden they have problems communicating? Does that makes sense? No, it doesn't.

On top of all this, she's an ISB agent!!! Being fluent in the predominant language of the galaxy should be an unspoken and unwritten prerequisite. That's like trying to be an FBI agent and not being able to speak English fluently.

Ultraviolet Joined: Sep 29, 2005 Posts: 353

Actually 80% is a gross overestimate, there are vast continents where not a single person can talk/read/write in english and even if they did they won't be fluent in it at all.

Even if you come from a certain location, you usually talk the same as the people around you, so if they all talk to same way you'll up speaking like that. And there is even diseases that prevent people from speaking properly.

Taking into account that an entire galaxy is far larger then the small blue mudball we all live on, it can be highly likely that not everybody will speak Galactic Basic the way you expect them to.

Orange Joined: Jul 06, 2007 Posts: 24

Dude, everything I said went completely over your head. Any human that is educated enough to work for the galaxy's largest government institution in a public capacity would have absolutely no problems communicating in Basic. Especially if they work in a public capacity on the capital planet.

Dark Lord of Selur Joined: Sep 01, 2005 Posts: 647

So you want Marina to speak Basic (aka English) fluently?

Don't get me wrong, this is starting to sound like an OOC complaint of a player's fluency in English rather than a roleplay objection.

Orange Joined: Jul 06, 2007 Posts: 24

Well, I guess that's what you get for assuming, Kooro. I'm not really sure where you got that impression, especially considering it has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. While I realize that a player's fluency in English would affect their roleplaying ability in regards to communicating in English, the person that plays Marina exhibits a strong command of the English language. So much so in fact, that I would have never guessed that English wasn't her first language until you brought it up.

I never intended this thread as an attack on someone's creative style, yet it's been interpreted that way. All I was doing was mentioning something that didn't make any sense in regards to Stars Wars canon nor the setting even as it is here on SWCIC. Including elements that are not canon have a tendency to make things needlessly difficult, irregardless of a player's creativity and end up leading to even further inclusion of non-canon elements. When roleplaying SW, I like to stick to canon. That includes Galactic Basic being exactly what it is as George Lucas has said; a standardized language used by the vast majority of civilized worlds in everyday communication without any separate dialects.

My original post stated that there are no separate dialects for Basic, which is true as far as canon goes. You can argue all you want that that doesn't make sense because the galaxy is so large, but then you also have to take into consideration how old the galaxy in question is, the level of technology in regards to travel and communications, how long Galactic Basic has been around, and how long it's been the standard language of the galaxy. These are all reasons why you can't really compare things in the SW universe to things on Earth. Nobody can really say what Earth will be like when the United Nations celebrates its 25,000th birthday (if it survives that long).

The reason Basic's full official name is Galactic Standard Basic is self-evident. It's the official language of nearly the entire galaxy and the primary language on all human dominant planets and has been since the Old Republic was formed. To say otherwise complicates things.

Marina is an ISB agent. She works for a government that has anti-alien laws and is incredibly ethnocentric, even in regards to subspecies of the human race. From what I've seen, that hasn't been changed from canon. Communication (along with propoganda and subjugation) is the key to the Empire's power. Being fluent in the official language of that government should not only be a prerequisite to work for that government in an official and public capacity, but also a necessity.